Changing the odds
It hasn’t always been easy for this newspaper or anyone else to get data about the glaring racial inequities in the School District.
So it is a breakthrough to have Superintendent Arlene Ackerman publicizing statistics showing that students of color are over-represented in discipline schools and emotional support classes and under-represented in magnet schools and gifted programs. Focusing on these problems is an important first step in improving the odds of success for African American and Latino youth in Philadelphia schools.
We know a lot about what needs to be done to change the odds. There are successful local schools that we can learn from. But to implement what we know requires staying focused on the inequities and consistently asking whether actions and policies are going to narrow the so-called racial “achievement gap” – better described as an “opportunity gap.”
Progress will require working on many fronts at once. We know that schools with high-achieving African American and Latino students have strong, stable teaching staffs that effectively engage their students and also have opportunities to talk to each other. A supportive principal who can nurture these aspects and build a community of learners is a vital ingredient.
The societal issues that Philadelphia students are dealing with are enormous, and some of the problems in our city are indeed beyond the capacity of schools to address. But schools have to be prepared to deal with the personal lives and needs of their children and reach them as early as possible.
This makes it critically important to build strong bonds between schools and their surrounding communities. But the District has not prioritized developing the necessary team-building and shared decision-making skills. The diverse constituents of school communities need to learn to plan and work together, not only to raise test scores, but also to raise children who are knowledgeable and compassionate.
Perhaps the hardest barriers to overcome are the fears and prejudices that run through our racially divided society. Black and Latino children – boys in particular – are so often viewed as dangerous or even criminal. Schools cannot uphold high expectations and successfully serve communities of color when the school staff is afraid of the communities they serve. Reversing the decline in the number of African American teachers is a critical step, as is professional development that helps all teachers understand and resist the powerful forces of racism.
We have just lived through a protracted period where we were lacking any national commitment or vision of working for equality. It was as if we were swimming upstream. Though it does not solve the problems of educational inequality, the election of Barack Obama represents a new day. In this hopeful moment, all of us must seize any available opportunities to build momentum for true equity and improvement in our schools.
Comments (25)
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 02/13/2009 - 17:26.
Yes African Americans are over represented in our disciplinary schools, they're over represented in our prisons as well.
Discipline is severely under represented at our schools as are caucasions. In a city which is 45% white, less than 15% of our public school students are white. Why is that? You may say racism, but I say its because our schools are unsafe for children of any color. If you've read the news regarding the report by Ellen Green Ceisler in 2005 and even more recently by Jack Stollsmier, the state safe schools advocate, then you know a strong argument about safety, regardless of ones skin color can be made.
It would be interesting to see the socioeconomic status of African Americans in Charter Schools. I'll bet its higher than the average socio economic of African Americans in public schools. If I'm right, why do you think successful Blacks are leaving our public schools?
Answer: The same reason whites did: safety.
Education is related to incarceration, so lets make schools safe. Only then can we hold teachers accountable for teaching.
Submitted by Jamie Roberts (not verified) on Thu, 02/19/2009 - 21:43.
As a Philadelphia teacher working on her second Master's degree, I've always considered my reading comprehension pretty high, but I found myself re-reading your editorial repeatedly, convinced I had to be misinterpreting it.
Are you actually suggesting the struggles of Latino and African-American boys in our schools are because of white racist teachers? And if so, are you serious?
I have spent most of my teaching career in predominantly African-American and Latino schools and in every case, the staff - which is always multicultural - has tried to create an aura of respect and safety within the school building. Never have I heard a colleague express fear of any student - although often we express concern on behalf of students, who step out of the schoolyard every afternoon and into an environment that is often quite dangerous. It is that environment that creates the circumstances that cause boys to struggle.
On my second day at my current school, there was a drive-by with an AK-47 on the other side of our playground fence. Children come to school drinking soda and eating candy instead of eating breakfast. We have to bribe kids with pizza and ice cream to get them to do their homework - and nearly always have to use our own money to supply them with pencils and other school supplies. And the reason they're struggling is because white teachers are racists who choose to spend their days with people they're afraid to be near? I'm not sure how your editorial writer came to that conclusion, but the use of facts clearly wasn't involved.
On a personal note, my own children, who have come up through the Philadelphia public school system are African-American. You can't imagine the grief I would have given a teacher who treated them with anything short of full respect. My son is now in high school. While preparing this comment, I asked him if he ever felt that any of his teachers over the past 11 years had seemed hostile toward him or afraid of him. His response: "Not a single one."
I have occasionally seen Caucasian, Latino and African-American teachers from middle-class neighborhoods express jaded remarks about the socioeconomic conditions that have led to the difficulty some of these children have had. But suggest that white teachers' racism is responsible for the struggles of non-white male students is abhorrent to the point of slander. Whoever wrote this editorial should be ashamed - as should the editor who approved it.
Submitted by Paul Socolar on Fri, 02/20/2009 - 01:26.
Let me try to outline again in simpler form what we were trying to say in the editorial, since at least one reader missed the point and perhaps others did as well
1) The School District has glaring racial inequities, in that Black and Latino students are overrepresented in schools where nobody wants to be and underrepresented in gifted programs and in the best magnet schools.
2) Yet there are some neighborhood schools in high-poverty areas (we just wrote about a few of them) where African American and Latino students do quite well. These schools tend to look different from other schools in that they have very effective leaders, stable and highly qualified teaching staffs, a sense of community, an intense commitment to making sure all students succeed, etc.
3) More often, schools in Philadelphia don't have all these resources and capacities (in part due to some inequities built into the system), and they find themselves overwhelmed by the problems in their communities, problems which are not of their own making.
4) To have any hope of turning around these struggling schools, the schools and their communities are going to have to pull together - to develop collaborative and trusting relationships. If schools want to help this trust develop, school staff will have to bridge racial divisions, fears, and prejudices that frequently get in the way. Black and Latino boys in particular are sometimes stereotyped, feared or misunderstood. We suggested this set of issues would be worth some attention and even training.
That's what we said. Somehow, once the phenomenon of racism is named, we notice that something short-circuits, everything else we said is forgotten, and some readers respond that the Notebook thinks the whole problem is white racist teachers.
That's not what we're saying. But there is no doubt that the distrust and lack of rapport between schools and their communities is one of the obstacles we have to confront if we're going to figure out a way to improve education in Philadelphia. Talk to students and parents, as we do every day, and the issue of lack of respect frequently comes up, and clearly is entangled with lines of race and class.
It's very fortunate that the son of the reader who just commented didn't feel disrespected at any point in school. But there is a vast amount of literature from all different political perspectives about how many urban students (not just in Philly) experience a lack of respect and low expectations from many of their teachers. Even George W. Bush spoke about this problem. To acknowledge its existence is not a condemnation of all teachers. It may often not be intentional, but it's real, and it's a widespread problem that needs to be addressed.
Submitted by Jamie Roberts (not verified) on Fri, 02/20/2009 - 15:20.
Since I am the teacher to whom you refer, I feel comfortable suggesting your point was missed because you expressed it badly, Instead of stating the indesputable fact that their are racists everywhere, including the school district, your statement implied that a significant contributer to the problems facing young Latino and African-American boys were teachers whose racism caused them to be afraid of their students. You used no qualifiers, such as "some staff members" or "among other problems, there exists the possibility...." Instead you made blanket statements. This is at best lazy writing and at worst irresponsible and divisive.
I am sure many students have felt as though they have been treated with disrespect by teachers. Sometimes it is true. Sometimes it is not. Other times, it is true only after the student has provoked the teacher beyond human endurance. But to suggest this is primarily an issue of racism ignores the fact that teachers of all races approach some students with low expectations. It is always wrong for them to do this - every child can succeed, if provided with the appropriate support at home and at school.
When looking at student-teacher interactions, it is important to look at both actors and also the home front. Establishing professional development workshops facilitating cultural understanding is absolutely beneficial. In fact, I recently asked for one at my school because the same studies you tout suggest that Latino girls face have the lowest self-esteem of all cultural groups and this issue is of significant concern. However, as phrased, your editorial unfairly indicts thousands of culturally aware, hard-working teachers throughout the district and a testy counter-comment will not serve any interest you might have in defending it.
Incidentally, I wonder how free your readers will feel to comment on Notebook articles when a dissenting opinion risks subjection to sarcasm and condescension.
Submitted by Helen Gym on Thu, 03/05/2009 - 11:02.
As we're building a community here at the Notebook, I hope folks will be generous to the effort we're trying to create together. There are terrible examples of blogs and websites out there that do little service to the broader dialogue than provide an outlet for people to type anything that comes off the top of their heads.
As far as your concern about Paul's response, as evidenced by some of the exchange above this one, some people really do short-circuit when it comes to talking about race and racism. So I don't think that Paul is off the mark when he makes that comment.
One thing to consider is that if you'd like to publish a statement in response to an editorial, you can always submit a letter to the editor. Posting on a blog usually - and fairly - invites a reply and response.
Submitted by Christopher Paslay (not verified) on Thu, 03/05/2009 - 14:23.
The curious part of this editorial is that while the Notebook warns against the dangers of stereotyping, they are in effect stereotyping themselves. The majority of Philadelphia public school teachers do not view Black and Latino boys as dangerous and criminal (I don’t know of a single teacher that does), nor are they afraid of the communities they serve.
To make such a sweeping generalization is both hypocritical and irresponsible.
It’s not surprising that the Notebook is unable (or unwilling) to recognize the stereotypical nature of their editorial. The writers and staff of this publication are too wrapped-up in the politics of race to see the forest through the trees. They state that they regularly talk to Philadelphia parents and students about racism (and in effect get one side of the story), but this hardly qualifies them as an authority on the day-to-day challenges facing teachers inside overcrowded, and often times under-resourced, classrooms.
Although reading books on urban education might provide some background understanding of the issue, it’s not the same as standing in front of 33 urban teenagers and teaching them on a daily basis. And quite frankly, I don’t believe that many minority students experience a lack of respect and high expectations from “many” of their teachers. Do Black and Latino children ever feel disrespected? Certainly. But not on the scale the Notebook and other political publications would lead us to believe; it might be wise for the Notebook to stop using “political” perspectives to draw their conclusions.
While we’re focused on stereotypes, let’s examine the issue of safety in Philadelphia. Is it wrong for teachers to be concerned about their well-being in high crime neighborhoods? Are the 350 annual homicides committed in the city simply fantasies conjured in the imaginations of bigoted educators? Most certainly not. Just ask the mother of Faheem Thomas-Childs, the 10-year-old third grader who was killed by a drug-dealer’s bullet outside Peirce Elementary in February of 2004.
How ironic is it that a publication that bills itself as “an independent voice for parents, educators, students, and friends of Philadelphia public schools” doesn’t even have a single Philadelphia public school teacher contributing to the newspaper? Sure, the Notebook’s writers and bloggers include an education lawyer, a doctoral student, an educational policy maker, a principal, a member of a parent group, and an education beat-reporter, but no teacher. Imagine that.
If the Notebook truly wants to comprehend and solve the District’s problems, they must bring a more balanced approach to their paper. They must also stop insulting educators with their biting innuendo, and treat Philadelphia public school teachers with more professionalism and respect.
If you want real perspectives from real Philadelphia public school teachers, visit Chalk and Talk at the following link:
http://chalkandtalk.wordpress.com/
Submitted by Helen Gym on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 18:58.
Thanks Christopher. As you know, the Notebook provides a link to Chalk and Talk to the right, so we certainly appreciate the work you've been doing to bring teaching issues to the forefront.
As to your point, I often think about anti-racism educator Enid Lee's approach to race and racism which is talking about it not as a mode of intent but as effect. Accusing specific individual teachers of racism is neither helpful nor quite accurate. But it is important to acknowledge that despite the individual intent of independent beings and entities in our multi-layered school district, that there is no doubt that an effect that's shaped by race has had a dramatic impact on the district.
Take one: The most resource-impoverished of our schools with the highest teacher turnover tend to be racially isolated schools educating children of color in communities of high poverty and racial isolation.
Is that the fault of one third grade teacher? Of course not.
But there are issues and patterns here that need some serious discussion. They would include the issues you raise above as well - the safety and well being of staff members, how teachers are treated as partners in reform.
They also include frank inclusion of race. And the trick is not to stifle one set of dialogue issues for another - that is not to allow the inclusion of race to stifle concerns, anger, frustration, bitterness, that teachers have about working in these impoverished schools - and at the same time the hope, love, passion and drive for excellence that get them to school every morning. And we can't allow such concerns to stifle inclusion of the bitterness and frustration and anger about racism that many people feel as well. Some teachers may not see or feel racism in our schools, but plenty of parents do - whether fairly or unfairly. But denying its existence from one end or another has the effect of negating experience and silencing voice - and that's just not going to get us anywhere.
We need to move beyond the idea that talking about race or racism is talking about the specific intent of particular individuals. It's recognizing that regardless of how we've fought against race and racism that our district, especially its failures, are increasingly shaped along race lines - and that's something we can all be reflective of and concerned about. It's not the only factor by any means, but acknowledging that is a start toward a more hopeful and engaged dialogue with a broader community.
Just my two cents.
Submitted by Ron Whitehorne on Sun, 03/08/2009 - 11:45.
I wanted to make a few comments on the question of teachers and race raised by the editorial and many of the subsuquent comments.
For the record I am a member of the editorial board that produced the editorial in question. As a teacher, albeit retired, who has written for the Notebook for many years I naturally take exception to the view that that the experience of teachers is absent from the Notebook’s internal process, although I agree we need more teachers, particularly current teachers to be involved. Finally, given the topic, I should add that I’m white.
Is it really an insult to teachers to suggest that we need to critically examine our attitudes related to race in order to improve our effectiveness? In a school system in which the majority of students come from low income families of color and where the majority of teachers are white…In a country and a city with our history, I would argue that rigorous professionalism demands that we do just that.
I have my share of horror stories of teachers who have said or done overtly racist things, but I want to be clear that these individuals are exceptional and for purposes of this discussion irrelevant.
Let me also stipulate that the overwhelming majority of teachers work hard and care about their students. They work under demanding and difficult circumstances and are underpaid and under appreciated.
To suggest that white teachers might, or even are likely, to hold certain stereotypes about people of color, does not mean that these teachers are lousy teachers or racists. It does mean that these attitudes are obstacles to improving achievement and need to be addressed. The Notebook is not suggesting that they are the only obstacles or even the principal obstacle, but they are important. In the interest of space let me just take one example.
Paternalism in the form of low expectations from white teachers dealing with students of color is far more common then overt racism and is consistent with the statements by some contributors to the blog that they never heard a hostile comment from a white teacher. Naturally none of us think we have low expectations. No one argues for them, but that does not mean they are not operating.
When I first started teaching I thought I held my students to a high standard. There was another teacher on our team, an African American man. The students complained to me about him. He wasn’t nice like me. So I went to see for myself. I was shocked by the difference between my classroom and his. The students were constantly being challenged. They were engaged and on task. He didn’t yell or threaten. He believed they could do the work and acted accordingly. It wasn’t that my classroom was bedlam or that no learning went on. But I was more inclined to forgive students being off task or make excuses for poor quality work from them. It made me realize that in spite of my history as a white radical and civil rights activist, I set the bar lower.
Some may say that’s not true of me and maybe it isn’t. But
I’ve been part of enough faculty lounge discussions about “these kids….what can you expect…just look at their parents…etc.” to know these attitudes are not isolated.
Part of the differences that surface in this discussion seem to center on the relative importance of race as a factor in our national and community life.
My starting point is historical. White Supremacy is a central fact of our nation’s history. The settlement of North America by Europeans depended on the systematic ethnic cleansing of native peoples and the enslavement of Africans. The legacy of this past is a racially stratified society in which whites are privileged relative to people of color. The ideology of white racism grew up as the justification for the practice of racial oppression.
Given this history, whites are necessarily influenced and impacted by this ideology.
While at different points many whites have supported the struggle for racial equality, for the most part the majority have supported the racial status quo. This is not ancient history. The modern Republican Party owes its success to the “southern strategy”, basically appealing to the racial fears and animosities of whites. In Philadelphia the phenomena of Frank Rizzo is a case study in the politics of racial backlash.
Our schools have been a central front in the struggle for racial equality in this country and, as we try to argue in the pages of the Notebook, this is a battle that continues.
Submitted by ShaneeG (not verified) on Tue, 03/03/2009 - 21:53.
I am a rare find: a teacher at one of the City's empowerment schools who graduated from West Philadelphia High school merely 5 years ago. I know for a fact, that a great deal of what's wrong with our schools stems from what is wrong with our faculty and staff. I have heard the remarks "these kids are all mentally retarded" ,"these kids can't learn", their parents don't care"--and, I bet that most other teachers have heard them as well.
I can't for the life in me understand why everyone is up in arms over the editorial. I don't feel insulted because I am not incriminated by the editorial. The data shows that black students (particularly males) are over represented in Special Education classes and disciplinary schools--that eventually spills over into the prison system (same statistics). I have heard countless stories from my students who tell me that they don't have a single teacher who talks to them about college. I know for a fact that there are teachers who do not teach and do not care to teach--because I was one of the students who was not taught.
Sadly, this is not the exception at my school, it's the rule. How dare we as educators not take a candid look at what is happening in our school. I know there are good teachers like me out there, but we sure as hell can't walk around like most of our faculty and staff is in it for students.
Fact: racism is alive and well in every institution--including our schools. How else do we justify a 50% drop out rate, schools without books, heat, and other essentials, and a system where 90% of teachers wouldn't dare send their children.
The day that we good teachers unify and get in a tizzy about the other teachers and administrators who are not holding up their end of the deal is the day when all students will be taught with high expectations and when students will achieve accordingly.
Submitted by EnoughIsEnuff!!! (not verified) on Wed, 03/04/2009 - 00:09.
Shawnee if you are truly "one of the students who was not taught" why the hell are you teaching in the schools? How did you get through teacher college if you were "not taught". What exactly did you have to do to teach at this Empowerment School?
Frankly I am tired of that all-purpose copout, RACISM, being used as a reason why black students are not learning. It's the abdication of personal responsibility in Philadelphia that is main culprit. Parents that can't show up for conferences or check their kids homework. Administrators that won't enforce their own rules because they are afraid of rocking the boat. Children who think sitting in a room is all that is required of them. Black students who accuse academically-successful black students of being "being white" is most damaging example of racism that I've witnessed in Philly. No wonder Philly's brightest black children don't feel welcome in their own community. Budding scholars should be idolized within the black communities the same way as basketball players or rappers.
The reason we don't have "books, heat, and other essentials" only has to do with one color, THE GREEN. Because Philadelphia is not overseen by an outside controller, like the rest of the schools in PA, its finances go unchecked. Do you think it's only white administrators that are hogging all that gravy for themselves?
Why don't we talk about the racist attitudes of too many pupils and their parents towards non-black teachers? Don't you think that might have something to do with whether a child learns too? Do you know how much racist nonsense I've had to deal with in terms of the "shade tirade" I hear every week in my all black classroom - kids accusing each other of being too black, too light, too dark, etc?
The 50% dropout rate has more to do with social promotion and allowing children to be passed along whether or not they have earned the right to do so. As an elementary teacher I have often used the phrase "when you get into college you will be expected to. . . .", but I can already tell some of these same students who won't make it through high school, let alone get into college.
Students have to hold up their end of the deal too. By using racism as an excuse makes me think that you're failing to hold up your end as well. With expectations comes responsibility. When a child can't be bothered to bring in a pencil to school despite being told for months it's necessary then it's on the child to live up to those expectation, not hide behind racism.
I urge readers to seek out black blogger, La Shawn Barber's website and read her piece on the damaging impact of out of wedlock children in the black community. A successful child often has both a father and mother around to guide them through life. This is what works best for children regardless of what color they might be.
Submitted by Erika Owens on Wed, 03/04/2009 - 01:11.
Making a personal attack on another commenter is not part of a constructive conversation, and presenting your points in such an angry manner only undercuts the points you're trying to make. Please try to be more aware of the tone of your comments.
Also, your attack is playing into the kind of low regard for academic achievement you lament--Shanee has succeeded in spite of an unsupportive environment in school, but you question her sincerity and abilities rather than praising her success and commitment to helping other students.
You list several other issues that may contribute to the dropout crisis, but do not address why racism could not possibly be part of those reasons. Neither the editorial nor Shanee's post make racism the only culprit, and the bulk of Shanee's is about teacher responsibility in general.
Issues you raise like academically successful black students being made fun of can find a root in teachers' attitudes and racist attitudes in society in general. Kids (and the rest of us!) respond to the attitudes we encounter and if kids encounter low expectations and a higher incidence of being labeled learning disabled they are not getting the message that academic success is something for them. The issues go together.
There's a difference between using racism as an excuse and recognizing that it is a factor. Nowhere in this post have I seen it used as an excuse; as Shanee says when we bring the issue of teacher attitudes out in the open we'll be able to talk about it, work on it, and improve student achievement.
Submitted by EnoughIsEnuff!!! (not verified) on Thu, 03/05/2009 - 00:04.
Sorry Erika, but I find the stereotyping of teachers as racists a personal attack and hardly constructive. Shawnees old enough to take any criticism for her statements. After all, she did state that she "was one who was not taught". If that were true she wouldn't have been able to get a teaching certificate. Why fault me for questioning her own words? She is contradicting herself. Why fault me for pointint that out?
As for my tone I find this Philadelphia mentality of acceptable bigotry offense. If we are going to talk race relations then we talk about it from both sides. Do you think non-black teachers don't experience racism too?
Furthermore, you are twisting my words by trying to blame "teachers' attitudes and racist attitudes in society in general" for bright, black students being accused of being white. That's quite a jump from what I really said. The fact is that it is comes from black children who get it from home.
Shawnee does use racism as culprit behind the 50% dropout rate. Sorry, but that is an excuse. Why doesn't she specifically cite how she's reached this conclusion? What is your own justification for saying racism is a factor in the dropout rate?
Teachers' attitudes should include ALL attitudes whether they are politically correct or not. I'm sorry, but I find it hard to "praise" someone who makes generalizations like those in Shawnee's post. I am commited and have gone the extra mile time and time again for the black children of Philadelphia. I have also come across anti-white attitudes not only from some students, but some black teachers and administrators too.
Submitted by Helen Gym on Thu, 03/05/2009 - 10:49.
Chhhiiillllll "Enuff."
You made your point. You disagree with the statement. And other people may disagree with you. It's your tone that's of concern. Many of us are teachers or former teachers coming to this site so most of us have been there; believe me, you're not the only one who feels that racism has personally touched your life.
Asking you to tone it down isn't a personal attack on your commitment to the children here. And no one asked you to "praise" any comments that are made on the site. It's lowering the threshhold of your online shout. You are more than welcome to challenge people's comments and thoughts, but don't expect to yell online and then get offended when someone asks you to turn down the volume.
Submitted by EnoughIsEnuff!!! (not verified) on Thu, 03/05/2009 - 14:26.
Helen, You're wrong. I was asked why I didn't "praise" Shawnee by Erika. Read her post. As for my tone when accusations like Shawnee's are posted we will respond. Sorry it that upsets you, but you've never really stood up for the teachers in this district. Your group has been asked to bring teachers into meetings with the administration, but teachers continue to be ignored.
I find it laughable that you would recomment an ultra-liberal site like Young Philly Progressives. Which columnist on this site is currently teaching? Former teachers don't count. There needs to be someone who can see the changes coming down first. We know what Ackerman says and the what has really been done are miles apart. We have a media in Philadelphia that has repeatedly ignored the voices of teachers. I haven't seen your own parents group doing anything to alleviate the problem. Teachers are closer to the problem than anybody else in this district and yet they are ignored. Had Philadelphia listened to us early on you would have known that Vallas was no good several years before the deficit scandal arose. Where is the outrage about the artwork he removed from our school hallways (where it hung for decades?) Instead we were treated to praise for Vallas from people like, Greg Wade, who was arrested for the misuse of his own parents rights group's funds. Pardon me for being skeptical.
Why not hire Keith Newman, who is teaching and battling the school administration, as a columnist? He writes for another website, Teachers Count, I thnik, and is in the mix as we speak. I also suggest readers view the educational section on Philly Blog or the IL teachers website, National Association for the Prevention of Teacher Abuse (NAPTA) Check out Educational Justice out in CA for what went down in the San Francisco schools when Ackerman was there.
Hopefully I've made my point this time.
Submitted by Helen Gym on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 10:17.
"Hopefully I've made my point this time."
I don't know "Enuff!!!" I think your scorn needs a few more exclamation points at the end.
Submitted by EnoughIsEnuff!!! (not verified) on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 13:11.
Helen, instead of hiding behind condescending terms like scorn (that's funny coming from you) why can't you admit you were wrong? Your remark about nobody asking me to "praise" anything in the another post was WRONG. Why can't you admit that? Instead of talking about my "tone" why do you ignore the points I've made. Everyone, that has criticized my posts, dodges the points I'm making so they can attack me for my "tone, scorn, etc". What I've posted has been based on what is posted by you folk. I've found alot of the posts here often hateful, but I think I can fight them better by proving them wrong.
This blog definately leans heavily to the left so excuse me if I choose to post views that dare to challenge what's posted here. It's suppose open dialogue about what's wrong in our school system. As others have pointed out there is something wrong when none of the columnists on this website are currently teaching.
Submitted by Helen Gym on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 17:47.
Like I said: Maybe if you shout a little louder and keep repeating your same points over and over and over again (with a few more exclamation points for added emphasis) some of us dunderheads will finally realize what you're actually saying. We liberals are a little slow like that.
Submitted by Erika Owens on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 13:10.
In regard to teacher voices on our blog, we do have a place for that here. As Paul explains here we are still building the blog and are looking at ways to bring more voices onto the blog. Keith Newman has commented on the blog, and teachers left many of the huge number of comment's on Alesha Jackson's post about teaching.
We're definitely interested in having teacher's voices on the blog, but tone remains important. And it's possible to disagree, to offer alternate views, to question and push us without engaging in personal attacks or being abrasive.
Oh, and earlier I wasn't twisting your words in regard to where the "acting white" idea comes from. I was explaining how the issues raised in the editorial can impact that. You clearly disagree with that idea, but I thought it was important to point it out. And the praising comment was also doubling back to that point, I commented about praising something specific, Shanee's academic success and commitment to teaching, not that you had to praise her opinions or agree with them.
It's clear this is a personal issue for you and that can make for emotional responses, but the lack of inflection and body language when reading responses on the web can make it hard to accurately read the tone in a response. Just makes it all the more important to be careful in how we phrase things.
Thanks for the suggestion of the Teacher's count blog. I'm adding it to our blog roll. As our welcome blog post says, we are interested in your feedback!
Submitted by EnoughIsEnuff!!! (not verified) on Fri, 03/06/2009 - 14:58.
The fact remains, Erika, that replying to a topic brought up on this blog and being able to present one's own topics are two different things. At present you have no one that is currently teaching which greatly weakens the purpose of this blog. Nobody knows better or quicker how district policies affect things in our schools than teachers. I still nominate Keith Newman for teachers input.
As for the "acting white" statement I just wonder why the same parties that are so quick to yell "racism" when whites are seen as the culprits are also the same ones to makes excuses for black racism? Had it been a bunch of white kids dissing another white kid for "acting black" I doubt that we would have used the same arguments for their comments. As the man said, you're either part of the problem or part of the solution. The solution is found by listen to all sides of the argument, not just what is popular at the time. Once again, check out La Shawn Barber's blog, an insightful, black commenter out in CA.
As for praising Shawnee, why should I praise someone for becoming a teacher when she claims she was never taught in the first place? Those are her words, not mine. If she HAS learned something from her teachers I think she needs to publicly apologize to them for her insulting comment. I am not the only one who has found fault with generalizations presented about certain people on this site.
There are posts on this site that I agree with, but that does not mean I won't sound off when I do disagree. I could complain about certain posters' tone towards me, but I would rather bring up topics or solutions that I think need to be presented. Looking forward to the give and take.
Submitted by Erika Owens on Mon, 03/09/2009 - 10:16.
I'm not sure if you saw the other replies to Shanee's post, but as was pointed out there personal attacks are not welcome here. You are making a lot of assumptions about Shanee that have no basis in her comment.
Just like you are entitled to your opinion, she is entitled to her opinion without being made "arbiter of who is a good and bad teacher." It's her opinion, please be respectful of that.
This is a place to speak openly, not to attack people who are willing to put their opinions out there. If you have any questions about what tone is welcome on this site, please email me at erikao@thenotebook.org.
Submitted by Down in the Basement (not verified) on Mon, 03/09/2009 - 12:02.
Sorry...but I don't think I am "attacking"...
The lady made some outrageous comments...I am exercising my free speech...we still have that in Philly, don't we?
Submitted by Paul Socolar on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 00:31.
I'm afraid freedom of speech in the USA does not mean that blogs or publications cannot have groundrules about what they will and won't publish.
You can start your own blog and say what you want. On this one, you have to abide by the terms of use.
I don't think there's any question that characterizing ShaneeG as one of those teachers "who suck up to the principal" and making up stories about how she wants to get teachers fired qualifies as a personal attack. Posts like that are not welcome here.
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Tue, 03/10/2009 - 11:05.
Sorry...I don't think you quoted my comments accurately...I said...that the controversial comments posted before mine..."reminded me" of those teachers who "suck up" to the principal...and those teachers who try to get other teachers in trouble...which is a prevalent problem...I have been in the trenches...I know of what I am talking about...I am not some white shoed..."expert"...who has never been in a classroom...trying to pontificate on education...I have seen the best and the worst...I know there are great evils in this system...and if you want to keep it under wraps...be my guest...
I think you are attributing quotes to me that are not quite there...I don't know the lady...she may be Mother Theresa....I do know that freedom of speech ends when it comes a little too close to being a threat to the status quo...we don't have freedom of speech in Philly, that is for sure...because we don't honor the Constitution...this is a corrupt city...just ask Ed Bacon...well, read the thoughts of Ed Bacon...and he will let you know that this city was corrupt and still is corrupt...it is a corrupt city...sorry...
I think you took my quotes out of context...I meant not to offend...but to enlighten...
Submitted by Down in the Basement (not verified) on Mon, 03/09/2009 - 12:00.
I meant to say due...not do...
Submitted by Down in the Basement (not verified) on Thu, 03/26/2009 - 22:53.
I agree with everything that Enuff is Enuff has said...Enuff is Enuff is my intellectual hero...
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